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149080-when-i-raid-in-wildstar
Content ---- ---- Likewise :) I remember bringing your esper along on a GA run where you essentially needed nothing (that I can remember) for "practice". Appreciated your help that day :) As for people flaming on reddit, I don't get it, especially for System Daemons. It's a real accomplishment for SD to go down, and everyone who does it should be proud. We are putting in our second night of attempts on Maelstrom tonight, and I think there's a better than even chance he goes down. Fingers are crossed anyway! Really, really fun fight. | |} ---- ---- ---- My personal, biased and unverifiable, opinion is that there are a couple of things here. First, the content that Carbine NAILED from the "fun" stand point was undeniable dungeons/raids and housing. Someone at Carbine understands what makes raids fun, and someone at Carbine understands what makes housing fun. But the people responsible for what "casuals" find fun I think assumed that daily zones was it. I dunno. Second, a lot of the fun content is hampered by rewards. I think the adventures (that aren't MT) are fun done with appropriate gear. I think that expeditions done with appropriate gear are fun (But they don't scale right with groups, so are more fun solo, sadly). Even dungeons, which are great fun, are dulled by being completely skippable in the gear progression due to contracts and world bosses. The two newest dungeons are a load of fun, but hardly ever run because the rewards aren't worth it. At launch, this was not the case regarding the content. Adventures and dungeons were relevant and the gear from them was important. People did them and they enjoyed them (though they did not enjoy "gold or bust"). But Carbine had a DIFFERENT problem at launch, still regarding rewards for effort. The rewards stunk and most gear was being salvaged. Even the raiding wasn't that rewarding, and people burned out. Carbine has done an awesome job at creating fun content. But that content has to have the right kind of incentive to keep people running it, and running it in a way that is fun (they've currently incentive dungeons to be speed run, for example). In my mind, WS will forever go down as a warning that you can't have just good, fun content, but you have to give people the right rewards to ensure they are motivated to run (and more importantly, re-run) it. | |} ---- ---- I think I'm lucky in that I really don't mind a little grind, especially if there are people on to chat with. Our guild is social enough that there's generally someone on to shoot the breeze with that makes the grind a nice, chill experience. | |} ---- Yeah I could have a personal performance by the foo fighters over teamspeak and I'd still not want to grind. :P | |} ---- Good Luck - we pulled for about an hour last night, so we will be pulling tonight as well. Ill check ur stream occasionally to see how its going for you guys! Have Fun | |} ---- The idea that Carbine NAILED the "fun" in dungeons and raids is only true if you're a player who enjoys highly demanding and precise tasks of group coordination. Most MMORPG players don't, which makes dedicating half of the endgame to that playstyle puzzling at best and self-destructive at worst. As for the content for casual players, that content is plenty of fun. I still go exploring around the open world just to see what easter eggs are hidden all over the map. Quite frankly, without the Veteran Expeditions this game would've curled up and died a long time ago. What that content isn't is rewarding or progressive, meaning that when a new zone or new expedition or new adventure comes out it's something new to do that will not provide you with any further ability to improve your character. So the casual player's ability to keep moving forward stalls out, they stagnate, get bored, and leave. That's not a content issue at all. It's an issue of endgame design philosophy. This game's endgame design philosophy provides a single path through about half of the endgame content, and you do it or you stagnate and drop out. If you happen to be one of the minority of players who finds that stuff fun, then you're having a great time. If you aren't, every new drop gives you more things to do that won't advance you forward at all. And they not only didn't fix that with the relaunch for F2P, they actually found most of the places where they'd crept away from that principle prior to F2P and removed them. | |} ---- ---- This game nailed the fun in dungeons and raids for those who like dungeons and raids. That was the point of this post. As for your comments about the viability of Carbine's endgame philosophy, that's not what this thread was about, so please leave it in other threads. The raid content was created, ill conceived or not, it's here and available, and people who haven't done it should try it (unless they are allergic to such content, such as Tex*, in which case I do understand there ARE exceptions). That's all I was trying to say. *I kid you, Tex, I kid. Edited January 19, 2016 by SlyJeff | |} ---- i saw the post and thought to myself "oh here we go again" LOL dont do it sly, DO NOT ENGAGE Edited January 19, 2016 by Foul Wind | |} ---- It's freaking disgusting. I try to ignore it, but holy crap, NO ONE is allowed to have any fun in this game unless it's Yasfan-Approved Casual Fun (TM, Patent Pending). I'm sorry. I'm done here. I hope it stays away, but likely since it already showed up, it's never going to leave this thread alone. Edited January 19, 2016 by Tex Arcana | |} ---- ---- ---- Why all the annoyance at opposing opinions? I thought it was a forum. | |} ---- i do not think it is an opposing opinion as much as the individual who made the post and quickly went off on a tangent about end game this and that blah blah blah. we are talking about raids in particular, something they talk a lot about without having ever set foot in one. | |} ---- We know because of the numerous other threads that yasfan has jumped into and derailed with their comments on the state of raising and the casual scene. They've been quite open about their contempt for the raid scene as well as their experience with it. | |} ---- How do you know that though? And he did give his opinion on raid/vets as well as delving into other things. You don't expect people in a thread staying exactly ontopic without mentioning any side things, you put your praise public expect a spectrum of opinions. | |} ---- i simply ask you to trust me that my statement is 100% factual based on their own posts. they have never raided in this game, but have plenty of opinions about it. | |} ---- Past experiences with this user. She's very against any raid content or group content. She's yet to step into any vet dungeon content and is very against group content. Look at her past posts. Anyways, post is about fun in dungeons and raids. If not having fun, than that's the opposing view not the most MMO players dont like group content (hahahahahaahahhahahaha) so dont bother doing it and instead do solo player stuff. Also, if said person has not done any of the group content, that person's view is thrown out the window and is not credible. If they did the content and didn't have fun, than thats a leg to stand on. Yasfan is known to derail threads and is very against group content in this game. Think's its all staged and timings and not the RNG of alot of encounters are. Also having to depend on others to do something and their role is hard to do. I have not met many players that have stepped into this games raids and not have fun. The only time is when they don't like wiping for the 200th time and not their fault but when you do get it down, you shout, you go F YEAH!!!! Edited January 19, 2016 by Orrestes | |} ---- Exactly this. Wiping sucks but finally finishing the kill after the wiping is what raiding (especially progression) is all about. All else is secondary. | |} ---- ---- I've encountered quite a few people who play this game and don't do raids and vet dungeons because they aren't enjoying it and find it too hard.To me it looks like the percentage of players who are raiders is very small in this game. This thread is a love song to a very small minority. The majority of players in this game will not experience the raids. That being said, I am happy for all of you having fun. | |} ---- I completely understand this, and my point with my "love song" was just to encourage those who haven't given it a shot or think it's beyond them to at least try. Whether or not this is a large number, viable, or whatever, that's really a different discussion. I think there are some issues with end game, and we've discussed them to death elsewhere. As for those who will not experience the raids, I wish they'd give it a shot. This game is less about skill and more about persistence. And just a little bit of "keep trying" opens up the doors for a lot of fun in WS. | |} ---- Different circles, cause I've had the opposite majority wise. I can't say I haven't heard it though because I have. But the people saying they dont enjoy or to hard don't go indepth on why they are hard or why they aren't fun. Mechanic wise, not the oh, the player was mean to me and was an annoying troll or they overpowered the content so wasn't fun. I personally think people don't say why because more than likely will get a flame post on them to get gud and it happens, life of Internet. But you also get posts on suggestions on what to do or try. Dodging red, or missing interupts, nothing can be said for that. But how to do better dps, or look for x ability because y ability will come soon. You don't see, I didn't have fun, because I don't like how the bosses ability works. Or I don't like Mordechai because of the oneshot laser, which I fell in love with when I first did the boss, can't overpower that ability. Use an example, 1st boss in SSM, some do not like that boss. But what alot don't know, is if you hold dps in the beginning to around 92% (don't quote me), you wait for her casting ability to interupt, get a big MOO, blow cooldowns, and will go alot faster. Take a CC break, to interupt again when she comes out of her dodging giant red of deathzone, and can do it again. Edited January 19, 2016 by Orrestes | |} ---- I think this might be confirmation bias (for both of us) because I haven't met that many people that hate the raids in this game and I've done quite a few pug raids where there are a few new people each time. I am sure that there are people out there that don't enjoy the raids but since I am a pretty big supporter of them I don't see them in my everyday activities. Perhaps it isn't a majority on either side of the coin. At any rate I think this thread (or at least slyjeff's initial intent) is actually more about getting people who haven't tried the raids to give them a shot. If someone is willing to put a little bit of time and effort to find a raid that will take them in they will probably enjoy it. This is because timetravel has put together a very rewarding experience for those willing to try it out. Granted you have to pay attention and do your best to not die and accomplish the task assigned but generally people are forgiving (especially if they know it's your first time in). Some people won't be and those are the annoying ones to raid with but as long as they can see that you are trying to improve people are generally willing to help out. I'd just say that it's worth a try because while the raids are challenging they are very rewarding (mentally) to complete. And it only gets better when you start to learn the mechanics and become more confident in your ability to complete said mechanics. | |} ---- ---- Actually, Tex, what prompted my post was this comment right here: That's when this thread moved off of celebrating the raids and the guy responsible for them for tailoring them to his intended audience, to criticizing the casual PvE content and taking a swipe at the people who made that content. And it's even more commentworthy because his opinion of who to blame for it isn't just "unverifiable" but verifiably false. Gaffney made it very clear that the studio was well aware how much of a grind daily zones are. The casual endgame content is fun, but there's nowhere near enough of it--just like is the case for all endgame content here--and the casual endgame progression is simply unrewarding. It stalls out quickly into diminishing returns that takes months of grinding to cap--for rewards that can be reached and exceeded in a week or two of more challenge-oriented group play. Carry on with praising the raid content as the masterpiece that it is, for the small fraction of the playerbase who really enjoys that kind of thing. It's not my cup of tea, but I'm glad they've got something to enjoy. | |} ---- ---- What's fun for you and others are two different things, so whose to say that the "casual" playerbase finds these things "fun?" More often than not I find that most "casuals" want to raid, but due to real life commitments/duties they cannot. I never hear that the solo content is fun. Sure if you have a limited timeslot to play you can find enjoyment in the simple things solo content has to offer, nothing wrong with that at all. This goes back to an arguement I made in earlier threads about not being content with where you were in said content. Carry on with "my opinions are law" as the masterpiece that it is, for the small fraction of the forum-divers (who are a very small %) who really enjoy that kind of thing. It's not my cup of tea, but I'm glad they've got something to enjoy.............................. | |} ---- ---- Fair enough, what I find fun is relevant only to the degree that my preferences are representative of the casual playerbase. But then again, based on the demographics described by this game's own developers, I'm a lot closer to representative of the casual playerbase than a raider wannabe who just can't find the time to participate. But then, you know this already because this isn't the first time you've been active in a thread where those demographics have been brought up. Is this aimed at the second bit of text you highlighted, where I noted that most people who play MMORPGs don't do challenge-oriented raids? If so, that's really not an opinion so much as a summary of known metrics that comes from several games, both indirectly through datamining and directly through statements from game management. It's really not a point of debate. The demographics are well known and have been since before this game even launched. Not everything in life is an unknown unless you choose to actively ignore the things that are known. If you do choose to do that, that's really not my problem. And to be clear, I'm bringing up the demographics of highly challenging raiding to place the opinions of people who do enjoy that kind of content in the context of the playerbase as a whole, not to dismiss those opinions as meaningless. I have no doubt that Jeff sincerely loves the raids and that many other people who raid share his opinion. I'm glad they have content they love. I hope they will continue to have new content that they love made available at a rate appropriate to their ability to financially support its development. And if there's people out there who hear Jeff describe his love for raiding and feel inspired to make a push towards it and try it out, I'd encourage them to try it and find out. | |} ---- ---- ---- um, what? What gates are you referring to? If you need help try www.Gamerphix.com ;) | |} ---- Nah, it was mostly a copy of your line twisted a different way from pst experiences, let's just say that :) . Never did I debate the metrics nor did I refute them, as that was not my intent. | |} ---- Thanks, Sly. We're glad you've enjoyed the dungeon and raid content as much as you have =) Edited January 20, 2016 by CRB_Timetravel | |} ---- This post so gud. LIKE LIKE! Also don't forget that master crafted gear also makes dungeon rewards almost pointless as you can easily pick up a piece for between 1-2plat. And IMO more importantly, major foci from glory bags seem to drop really well for a few and bad enough to be a complete waste of time for others making most people not want to bother grinding dungeons for them, leaving raiders nothing really meaningful to do outside of raid. At the risk of being unpopular, does anyone else think raids drop, a little too much loot? Edited January 20, 2016 by H3rboss | |} ---- I wouldn't. Looks like NCSOFT is living up to its reputation: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/topic/149596-queue-time-lying/ | |} ---- Hope to see you soon. Sorry about the surgery tho :( | |} ---- ---- ---- Yea queue times are pretty bad. We shall never log out again xD | |} ---- I must admit I dont know how the game is that busy as when I tried it the thing felt and looked very dated and it was nothing special. I couldn't even bind my different mouse buttons in the keybind section of the game which for a game released in 2016 is ridiculous. Good on those having a good time though but don't worry about queues as they eventually always go away. First month is normally the worst and then after that things normally start getting better if they don't have a knee jerk reaction and open up more servers before then. | |} ---- ---- pretty sure they're playing it for the boobs and dat ass and because it's new and hyped | |} ---- ---- ---- HAHAHAHA I bought an advance pack. I played all day Sunday and a little bit on Monday afternoon. I think I am already done. :lol: | |} ---- We did GA on Friday I think primarily because some of our regulars took a break to play B&S and we ended up a few short (which also worked to the advantage of needing a few more class foci and gearing up a new guild member) for System Daemons. Everyone was back Sunday and sign ups for this Friday have already hit 20 with more yet to respond. Despite TCO having a chapter in B&S now, and our main healer being a huge fan, I think the hype phase is over. . . . of course, getting two progression bosses down last night probably helped remember people to be faithful to WS (thin brag?) Edited January 20, 2016 by SlyJeff | |} ---- ---- Did it on my G600 just fine :) . Unless you are talking about modifiers. And FYI it was ported in 2016....been around for years in the east. Edited January 20, 2016 by Bacon_21 | |} ---- Wont allow my side buttons on the Roccat Tyon to be bound it just doesn't register the clicks. At the time I was trying to change my pot's that are on the 6 key to one of the side mouse buttons, I also wanted to change a few other skill keys and it wouldn't let me. I understand its been around for years in the east but not in the west, I assumed they would have done more than just translate the thing. | |} ---- I guess I didn't pick the Pergo of BnS, since I have 0 queue. Honestly, I just wanted to mess around with the character creation, so I never bother to research which server to be on. Can't really get a feel of classes yet as the early parts are like 70% cutscenes. UI is all kinds of terrible! :lol: Btw, what's the difference between Yun & Jin besides legs? | |} ---- ---- Don't be sorry. I've been waiting for this new hip for years. I can't wait to be pain free for the first time since my late teens. It will be glorious! | |} ---- Dragon Pouches drop ingame from quests and the likes. Sure you can buy them, but you can also farm them really. Their system is really similar to Wildstar actually. | |} ---- Jin are basically the normal humans of the world. Yun are a race, if you could call them one, of all females....basically the amazon equivalent. Yun can be as short as jin or just about as tall as Gon. | |} ---- Side note, but as someone who's been playing BnS and relatively enjoying it so far... Dragon Pouches are not something that you can reliably get in-game. You receive a couple from an intro quest, a few from the in-game surveys, and the Daily Dash has a couple (if you can progress it to them), but that's it. What you can do is farm Hongmoon Coins to purchase them, but... heh. That grind's even worse than Omnibits. Edited January 20, 2016 by Naunet | |} ---- But from what I read the higher tiers of unlocking your inventory requires upwards of 35 of those things. Which if you decided to plonk your cash down on them it would not be relatively cheap and even worse if your grinding for them. From what I gather inventory space is quite a big thing as the game throws alot of stuff at you, so they could probably tone the cost down. Plus I also see that although the company's are all under the one hood with NCSoft no-one must talk to each other about selling single character use items as those with a founder pack have single character items and alot of the skins and outfits are single character only. From what ive read the items they give you early doors called hongmoon are pretty much the best in game you just spend the rest of your time upgrading those. Add onto that I believe it is highly rng based and if you can't tell already im not a fan of BnS at all although I will say I love the cross server dungeon lobby as that is a smart idea especially once the population levels out as it will still mean the dungeons will pop frequently. | |} ---- Upgrading isn't really RNG. You sacrifice materials/gear to add to what's basically an XP bar. Every so often you have to do a "breakthrough", which requires some special materials, but you're always guaranteed on everything. Inventory is horrendously expensive $$$-wise though. And a pain if you don't subscribe for the Wardrobe. edit TO BRING THIS BACK AROUND TO TOPIC! Can't wait for raid tonight! Although we've killed through Convergence, we still have to work on getting bosses down fast enough before we'll ever actually be able to work on Ohmna. I hope we get through many bosses tonight! Sad that I won't be able to attend Saturday, but alas... that's the price I pay for being married to a writer and having to attend cons to help him sell books. :P Edited January 21, 2016 by Naunet | |} ---- lol yeah forgot this was a thread about raids im terrible for derailing topics. But on the topic of raids in Wildstar they look really fun and although I haven't had the privilege to do any because my gear is rubbish and I need to work on getting it up. I have seen a few video's of people doing them and when you get that many people together there is always a fun time to be had. | |} ---- ---- Oh, good luck to your team. As for kicking, we use a variety of methods, but our easiest is running a warrior in a mitigation/self heal/power link build. Never has to drop stacks and provides buffs to the raid. | |} ---- Can also be solo'd on a dps Engy. I've generally just used the T8 version of PDU for survival and otherwise left my build as normal. | |} ---- awwwwwwwww look at this glass half full kind of guy ;) but thats where the problem is... no content no players, does not matter if the old content and overall game is better. new stuff will be played and the replayability of dungeons/raids is not endless. | |} ---- I'm a DPS Stalker (at least for this fight). T_T We have like one Warrior on our team lol. Right now, I'm still learning to pay attention to multiple things at once. Like sometimes I get super focused on Power Surge that I won't watch other things. Also Kicking during pillars is still tough for me right now. Sometimes, I'll go into tank stance when I get too many stacks. Also trying Steadfast, but I'm having trouble adjusting to the keybind because it's on another for tank spec and then I get confused. It was my first time Kicking so I'm still experimenting with what works for me. Though at least I'm not alone on Kicking. Edited January 21, 2016 by Spider Bro Jenkins | |} ---- Ugh... Stalker kicking, not my favorite job. If you use Kurona Frames, you can add Power Surge to its alerts and you'll get this loud "WHOOONG" during the channel. The other thing to do is to get Interruptor and make sure your daemon is targeted. Get the sound, see if Interruptor's bar is filling, interrupt, profit! 8% is awesome! You'll have it real soon now. Good luck! :) | |} ---- You can try to have your "kickers" switch sides for defensive stance so they don't pull aggro. Or have a 2nd kicker take over rq to clear stacks. | |} ---- ---- ----